Post by Kiwi Frontline on Oct 18, 2016 6:08:00 GMT 12
Dominion Post 18/10/16
FAVOURING MAORI
A correspondent (October 15) advocates favouring Maori on racial grounds because land was "stolen" by the colonisers (presumably benefiting all New Zealanders mostly, thus including Maori).
However, fair settlement aside, the Treaty also cemented enormous Maori land ownership -which beforehand was as tenuous as Maori killing each other to claim it.
Even the colonisers don't privilege Celtic genes in recognition of invasion by Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans. Those were terrible times and if we don't apply contemporary common sense, then the United States owns the Moon.
Don Brash is effectively asking what the future will hold if, for example, a board position is reserved for someone merely because they carry a Maori gene - which concept is ludicrous given "Maori" continually succeed on merit, as do immigrants coming here with nothing.
Some argue that disproportionate Maori prison statistics justify racially targeted hand-ups, but this is also nonsense. Sir Ngatata Love and anyone else, whether Maori or not, face prison when they do wrong. And, if a lower socio-economic group is less able to afford good legal assistance, that is a systemic problem requiring a needs-based solution (not a racially biased or exclusive solution that fails to assist other races when facing such need). [abridged]
D F
Paraparaumu Beach
WAIKATO WARS
Re The war that history forgot (October 15), in writing of the origins of the Waikato wars Vincent O'Malley has claimed that "Tainui-Waikato were reacting to the move to set up a Pakeha system of government that would largely exclude Maori" . This is simply untrue.
In April 1857 Governor Gore Brown attended a meeting at Rangiriri, where he met Te Wherowhero, who became the movement's king, Potatau, the following year. There the principal chiefs of the Waikato asked for runanga, a European magistrate, and laws. To these demands the governor assented; he promised to send a magistrate to reside in the Waikato, who should visit the native settlements, and, with the assessors, administer justice periodically. He also promised to have a code of laws framed, applicable to the circumstances of the natives. All the men then took off their hats, and cried "Hurrah!"
Te Wherowhero was pleased and wished to co-operate with the governor, to share in this form of inclusive local government. He declared that he would be guided by the governor's advice. He was a dying man, and should bequeath his people to the governor's care. That promise was kept. However, some kingites disobeyed the king and drove those government agents out of the Waikato.
JOHN ROBINSON
Island Bay
The Northern Advocate 18/10/16
LEAVE HIM ALONE
Don Brash, among others, has started up a group called Hobson’s Pledge Trust. Put simply, Hobson said after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi: “Now We Are One People”.
Predictably, the media ghouls have been at him like a pack of bloodhounds. Andrew Little referred to him as racist. What is racist about that? John Key says that New Zealanders are not “interested in broken record politics”. Dream on John! Look, if you guys want to be clowns, why don’t you join a circus?
Why did DoC remove about a dozen oak trees, with trunks about 2 metres thick, from the Bay of Islands? Their excuse was that they were not part of our history. But that is exactly what they were. They may have been 800 years old, here before Maori. Why are there 105 embargoes in the country? I have seen photos of stone buildings in the Waipoua Forest, and they look just like those on the Orkney Islands, north of Scotland, to me. Why am I refused permission to explore in some 4000 archaeological sites in New Zealand, which have been logged?
Why aren’t the Patupaiarehe (Ngati Hotu), and the Waitaha people paid out for the atrocities that were committed against these peaceful people? They were here centuries before Maori. Come on, you media ghouls, these questions demand answers — and carry on the good work Don Brash and Co. (Abridged)
KEVAN C MARKS
Kaipara
Hawkes Bay Today 18/10/16
LAND SALES
Lindsay Gordon Paku Q.S.M, Hastings, wrote that "in 1835 Queen Victoria recognised the Declaration of Independence". Unfortunately, Queen Victoria's reign started in 1837.
Unlike Mr Paku's version of Article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi, which he wrongly claims includes the foreshore, the English text as appended to statutes says: "Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as maybe agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf."
As you can see, Article 2 confirmed that the chiefs, tribes, and families owned what they owned and could sell what they owned, if they wished, at agreed prices.
Mr Paku's lament that "we no longer possess our rivers, our lakes, our forestry, or our foreshore" fails to acknowledge that the chiefly proprietors sold it all along with the land. Check out the land sale deeds, held at the Victoria University NZ Electronic Text Centre which specifically include streams, rivers, lakes, and everything under the ground.
MIKE BUTLER
Hastings
The Daily Post Rotorua 18/10/16
BOARDS’ ADVISORY ROLE
Lots of people work shifts, flexibly, weekends, and as our society changes so should our shops if they want to compete with online shopping, which is 24 hours."
Yes, as John Pakes said ( Letters, October 14), there will be two community boards advising council, but it is in an advisory capacity only.
Therein lies the difference between them and the unelected Te Arawa members who sit on, and can vote on, the two most important council committees. ( Abridged)
P H
Rotorua
FAVOURING MAORI
A correspondent (October 15) advocates favouring Maori on racial grounds because land was "stolen" by the colonisers (presumably benefiting all New Zealanders mostly, thus including Maori).
However, fair settlement aside, the Treaty also cemented enormous Maori land ownership -which beforehand was as tenuous as Maori killing each other to claim it.
Even the colonisers don't privilege Celtic genes in recognition of invasion by Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans. Those were terrible times and if we don't apply contemporary common sense, then the United States owns the Moon.
Don Brash is effectively asking what the future will hold if, for example, a board position is reserved for someone merely because they carry a Maori gene - which concept is ludicrous given "Maori" continually succeed on merit, as do immigrants coming here with nothing.
Some argue that disproportionate Maori prison statistics justify racially targeted hand-ups, but this is also nonsense. Sir Ngatata Love and anyone else, whether Maori or not, face prison when they do wrong. And, if a lower socio-economic group is less able to afford good legal assistance, that is a systemic problem requiring a needs-based solution (not a racially biased or exclusive solution that fails to assist other races when facing such need). [abridged]
D F
Paraparaumu Beach
WAIKATO WARS
Re The war that history forgot (October 15), in writing of the origins of the Waikato wars Vincent O'Malley has claimed that "Tainui-Waikato were reacting to the move to set up a Pakeha system of government that would largely exclude Maori" . This is simply untrue.
In April 1857 Governor Gore Brown attended a meeting at Rangiriri, where he met Te Wherowhero, who became the movement's king, Potatau, the following year. There the principal chiefs of the Waikato asked for runanga, a European magistrate, and laws. To these demands the governor assented; he promised to send a magistrate to reside in the Waikato, who should visit the native settlements, and, with the assessors, administer justice periodically. He also promised to have a code of laws framed, applicable to the circumstances of the natives. All the men then took off their hats, and cried "Hurrah!"
Te Wherowhero was pleased and wished to co-operate with the governor, to share in this form of inclusive local government. He declared that he would be guided by the governor's advice. He was a dying man, and should bequeath his people to the governor's care. That promise was kept. However, some kingites disobeyed the king and drove those government agents out of the Waikato.
JOHN ROBINSON
Island Bay
The Northern Advocate 18/10/16
LEAVE HIM ALONE
Don Brash, among others, has started up a group called Hobson’s Pledge Trust. Put simply, Hobson said after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi: “Now We Are One People”.
Predictably, the media ghouls have been at him like a pack of bloodhounds. Andrew Little referred to him as racist. What is racist about that? John Key says that New Zealanders are not “interested in broken record politics”. Dream on John! Look, if you guys want to be clowns, why don’t you join a circus?
Why did DoC remove about a dozen oak trees, with trunks about 2 metres thick, from the Bay of Islands? Their excuse was that they were not part of our history. But that is exactly what they were. They may have been 800 years old, here before Maori. Why are there 105 embargoes in the country? I have seen photos of stone buildings in the Waipoua Forest, and they look just like those on the Orkney Islands, north of Scotland, to me. Why am I refused permission to explore in some 4000 archaeological sites in New Zealand, which have been logged?
Why aren’t the Patupaiarehe (Ngati Hotu), and the Waitaha people paid out for the atrocities that were committed against these peaceful people? They were here centuries before Maori. Come on, you media ghouls, these questions demand answers — and carry on the good work Don Brash and Co. (Abridged)
KEVAN C MARKS
Kaipara
Hawkes Bay Today 18/10/16
LAND SALES
Lindsay Gordon Paku Q.S.M, Hastings, wrote that "in 1835 Queen Victoria recognised the Declaration of Independence". Unfortunately, Queen Victoria's reign started in 1837.
Unlike Mr Paku's version of Article 2 of the Treaty of Waitangi, which he wrongly claims includes the foreshore, the English text as appended to statutes says: "Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as maybe agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf."
As you can see, Article 2 confirmed that the chiefs, tribes, and families owned what they owned and could sell what they owned, if they wished, at agreed prices.
Mr Paku's lament that "we no longer possess our rivers, our lakes, our forestry, or our foreshore" fails to acknowledge that the chiefly proprietors sold it all along with the land. Check out the land sale deeds, held at the Victoria University NZ Electronic Text Centre which specifically include streams, rivers, lakes, and everything under the ground.
MIKE BUTLER
Hastings
The Daily Post Rotorua 18/10/16
BOARDS’ ADVISORY ROLE
Lots of people work shifts, flexibly, weekends, and as our society changes so should our shops if they want to compete with online shopping, which is 24 hours."
Yes, as John Pakes said ( Letters, October 14), there will be two community boards advising council, but it is in an advisory capacity only.
Therein lies the difference between them and the unelected Te Arawa members who sit on, and can vote on, the two most important council committees. ( Abridged)
P H
Rotorua