Post by Kiwi Frontline on Aug 28, 2019 4:39:22 GMT 12
Dear Editor (Sent to the Nelson Mail 19/8/19
Gary Clover (letters, August 19th) reads into the Waitangi Treaty that granting “full [Maori] chief-ship over iwi resources, while the Crown would rule over European settlers” implies a “governing partnership”. Well, to me it implies no such thing. It simply guarantees that Maori would be granted the same property rights as groups that European settlers enjoyed as individuals. And yes, as Clover points out, it most certainly was meant to be an instrument of protection for Maori (as well as for the settlers). To me it simply implies that Maori were offered, and gratefully accepted, the same property rights as the settlers - as well as all the other legal protections and privileges inherent in English common law. The old Maori weren’t primitive fools - in fact I believe they were the most culturally, and intellectually advanced stone age people in the world (but perhaps I am biased, being a New Zealander!). The richness and spiritual depth of their language is a proof of that. Unlike the many other stone age people unsettled by Europeans, they immediately comprehended and embraced the peculiar European culture of personal rights backed by a written code of legislation - so alien to their own culture.
This understanding of the Treaty was shared by us all ever since the signing of the treaty. To me it is immensely saddening that people like Gary Clover now openly subscribe to an altogether different understanding of the Treaty - one which blatantly desires racially based legislation - and in effect, dual nationhood. It is my fervent hope that this ugly episode in New Zealand policy will not prevail. I hate racism.
ANDY ESPERSEN
Dear Editor, (Sent to the Nelson Mail 19/8/19)
There is nothing written in Te Tiriti that even implies a 'governing partnership' (Gary Clover 19/8/19).
The main points of the preamble in Te Tiriti are 1) obtain the chiefs consent for sovereignty 2) preserve chiefs their land, 3) establish peace and order amongst the tribes, 4) establish a government in order to protect both settlers and natives.
Hence Article 1 clearly states ceding ‘ENTIRE sovereignty of their country forever’, Article 2 guarantees the chiefs and tribes and ALL the people of NZ possession of their lands, dwellings and their property. And that for the protection of Maoris the Queen is the primary purchaser of their lands should they wish to sell. Article 3 gives protection to all NZers, and granted Maoris the rights of British subjects – a huge gift from the most powerful nation on earth at that time, especially to the many thousands of Maori slaves.
Article 4 – there simply isn’t one, even Clover’s esteemed historian Professor Paul Moon debunks this neo nonsense in NZ Herald 29/1/13.
GEOFF PARKER, Whangarei
The Editor, (Sent to the Northland Age 4/8/19)
Ihumatao and things maori - STAY OFF URBAN LAND (SOUL)
Ihumatao land presently occupied by mischief-makers is not the OTUATAUA Stonefields 100ha site which was dealt with in 2001 by Manakau City Council and ARA apparently to everyone’s satisfaction. Fletchers legitimately own the Ihumatao land and local iwi are more than happy with the Fletchers deal reached by them for land and houses and so they should be. Now, suddenly we have the riffraff interlopers/trespassers appearing on the scene without any colour of right, unlawfully occupying the Fletchers 33.8 ha land acquired in 2016 for around $40million.
Give in to the bullying demands and the loss to Fletchers will be the purchase price, holding costs, loss of profits on the sale of homes and sections which we conservatively put at around $150m in total plus all legal, survey planning and consultant’s costs incurred to date. Local maori would lose the negotiated 8ha.and 25 homes. Current cost to Kiwi taxpayer for police & political input at least $1million.
There must be no Government or taxpayer bailout – as that sets another Titford farm type precedent.
Suggestion is let interlopers fund it, 5000 sods @ $30,000 each – that should do the trick, then Fletchers can just walk away. However, this ain’t what the whinging great unwashed, unemployed beneficiaries want, as not their modis operandi of always wanting something for nothing and stuff everyone else. They bleat give us free greenfields and add to the Stonefields reserve.
Well the ultimate final solution is just arrest them, remove them from Fletcher’s land send them packing and where appropriate institute criminal proceedings.This is no Bastion Point and no negotiation is necessary for what is privately owned land. Oh, and Fletchers while you are at it get a fawning apology from the Government and maori interests.
Incidentally, only 40kms away is Bombay Hills obelisk and boulder complex, said to predate maori arrival in NZ. As there is no history of maori, constructing stone walls, has anyone tried to establish when the walls were built by non- maori and whether there is any link with Bombay boulders. Food for thought eh? Might throw a different slant on the whole scenario.
Recent Friday evening airport interview featured Ms. Ardern with the look of a startled transfixed possum in the headlights, flanked by her sullen po-faced Ministers Henare and Davis, making a play for idiot magnet negotiations .However ACT, David Rankin, NZ Taxpayers Union and most other sane law abiding Kiwis don’t want a bar of kowtowing to violence threats and intimidation unlawful behaviour or fairy tales and rightly so too. Fletchers have followed all the correct protocols with ihumato land and Otuataua Stonefields and no one suggests otherwise.
To argue with people who have renounced the use of reason and authority and whose philosophy consists in holding fellow Kiwis in contempt is like administering medicine to the brain dead whose sense of entitlement is delusional built on self-centredness, greed and laziness and contrary to their opinion, no one owes them anything.
ROB PATERSON, Tauranga
sites.google.com/site/kiwifrontline/letters-submitted-to-newspapers/unpublished-letters
Gary Clover (letters, August 19th) reads into the Waitangi Treaty that granting “full [Maori] chief-ship over iwi resources, while the Crown would rule over European settlers” implies a “governing partnership”. Well, to me it implies no such thing. It simply guarantees that Maori would be granted the same property rights as groups that European settlers enjoyed as individuals. And yes, as Clover points out, it most certainly was meant to be an instrument of protection for Maori (as well as for the settlers). To me it simply implies that Maori were offered, and gratefully accepted, the same property rights as the settlers - as well as all the other legal protections and privileges inherent in English common law. The old Maori weren’t primitive fools - in fact I believe they were the most culturally, and intellectually advanced stone age people in the world (but perhaps I am biased, being a New Zealander!). The richness and spiritual depth of their language is a proof of that. Unlike the many other stone age people unsettled by Europeans, they immediately comprehended and embraced the peculiar European culture of personal rights backed by a written code of legislation - so alien to their own culture.
This understanding of the Treaty was shared by us all ever since the signing of the treaty. To me it is immensely saddening that people like Gary Clover now openly subscribe to an altogether different understanding of the Treaty - one which blatantly desires racially based legislation - and in effect, dual nationhood. It is my fervent hope that this ugly episode in New Zealand policy will not prevail. I hate racism.
ANDY ESPERSEN
Dear Editor, (Sent to the Nelson Mail 19/8/19)
There is nothing written in Te Tiriti that even implies a 'governing partnership' (Gary Clover 19/8/19).
The main points of the preamble in Te Tiriti are 1) obtain the chiefs consent for sovereignty 2) preserve chiefs their land, 3) establish peace and order amongst the tribes, 4) establish a government in order to protect both settlers and natives.
Hence Article 1 clearly states ceding ‘ENTIRE sovereignty of their country forever’, Article 2 guarantees the chiefs and tribes and ALL the people of NZ possession of their lands, dwellings and their property. And that for the protection of Maoris the Queen is the primary purchaser of their lands should they wish to sell. Article 3 gives protection to all NZers, and granted Maoris the rights of British subjects – a huge gift from the most powerful nation on earth at that time, especially to the many thousands of Maori slaves.
Article 4 – there simply isn’t one, even Clover’s esteemed historian Professor Paul Moon debunks this neo nonsense in NZ Herald 29/1/13.
GEOFF PARKER, Whangarei
The Editor, (Sent to the Northland Age 4/8/19)
Ihumatao and things maori - STAY OFF URBAN LAND (SOUL)
Ihumatao land presently occupied by mischief-makers is not the OTUATAUA Stonefields 100ha site which was dealt with in 2001 by Manakau City Council and ARA apparently to everyone’s satisfaction. Fletchers legitimately own the Ihumatao land and local iwi are more than happy with the Fletchers deal reached by them for land and houses and so they should be. Now, suddenly we have the riffraff interlopers/trespassers appearing on the scene without any colour of right, unlawfully occupying the Fletchers 33.8 ha land acquired in 2016 for around $40million.
Give in to the bullying demands and the loss to Fletchers will be the purchase price, holding costs, loss of profits on the sale of homes and sections which we conservatively put at around $150m in total plus all legal, survey planning and consultant’s costs incurred to date. Local maori would lose the negotiated 8ha.and 25 homes. Current cost to Kiwi taxpayer for police & political input at least $1million.
There must be no Government or taxpayer bailout – as that sets another Titford farm type precedent.
Suggestion is let interlopers fund it, 5000 sods @ $30,000 each – that should do the trick, then Fletchers can just walk away. However, this ain’t what the whinging great unwashed, unemployed beneficiaries want, as not their modis operandi of always wanting something for nothing and stuff everyone else. They bleat give us free greenfields and add to the Stonefields reserve.
Well the ultimate final solution is just arrest them, remove them from Fletcher’s land send them packing and where appropriate institute criminal proceedings.This is no Bastion Point and no negotiation is necessary for what is privately owned land. Oh, and Fletchers while you are at it get a fawning apology from the Government and maori interests.
Incidentally, only 40kms away is Bombay Hills obelisk and boulder complex, said to predate maori arrival in NZ. As there is no history of maori, constructing stone walls, has anyone tried to establish when the walls were built by non- maori and whether there is any link with Bombay boulders. Food for thought eh? Might throw a different slant on the whole scenario.
Recent Friday evening airport interview featured Ms. Ardern with the look of a startled transfixed possum in the headlights, flanked by her sullen po-faced Ministers Henare and Davis, making a play for idiot magnet negotiations .However ACT, David Rankin, NZ Taxpayers Union and most other sane law abiding Kiwis don’t want a bar of kowtowing to violence threats and intimidation unlawful behaviour or fairy tales and rightly so too. Fletchers have followed all the correct protocols with ihumato land and Otuataua Stonefields and no one suggests otherwise.
To argue with people who have renounced the use of reason and authority and whose philosophy consists in holding fellow Kiwis in contempt is like administering medicine to the brain dead whose sense of entitlement is delusional built on self-centredness, greed and laziness and contrary to their opinion, no one owes them anything.
ROB PATERSON, Tauranga
sites.google.com/site/kiwifrontline/letters-submitted-to-newspapers/unpublished-letters